I agree with your assessments, Fletch. Great review.

Your cons, plus the ways you wish you could toggle between maps and compass, as well as your desire to adjust brightness more easily, are all spot on.

I'm sorry to say, but quite frankly, the dim screen is an incredible disappointment and reduces the usability factor of the Oregon to that of a doorstop. The screen is how we interact with these devices, and especially so on this model. So what good is it if the screen can hardly be read outdoors, which is where it's always going to be used? It would be like integrating buttons or a touchscreen that don't respond to pressure... you could praise the features all you want, but if you can barely read the thing, then all the rest is useless. Whoever is responsible for deciding on that screen needs to be removed and assigned another position within the company, far, far away from the design team. Who could look at that and say, "Yeah, that looks good."? Are these people blind? There's no excuse for a blunder like that!

Garmin needs to make all the changes you list (and some of what I say below may echo what you already said, but it doesn't hurt to repeat some of it):

Hardware changes needed:

1.) SiRFstar III or MTK chipset
2.) MUCH brighter screen - one that you can actually READ outdoors (WOW, what a concept!)
3.) Integrate a 3-axis compass
4.) They need to integrate a good speaker so it can speak directions when utilizing street maps.
5.) They should design it to hold FOUR AA (not AAA) batteries, and not just two. This way, it would increase battery life and handle the hit of a more powerful GPS chipset, brighter screen, and integrated speaker (and NiMH or Oxy batteries would fare even better). They can do it, too. They just need to decide to move forward. And who cares about a few more ounces of battery weight if it means better everything?

Software changes needed:

1.) The ability to toggle easily and instantly between maps and compass.
2.) The ability to more easily and instantly adjust brightness.
3.) The ability to easily and instantly adjust the volume of an integrated speaker and to mute (either through the screen or with three dedicated buttons on the side - volume up, volume down, and mute).
4.) The ability to delete geocaches directly from the device. Why do we need a computer just to get rid of junk we no longer need? This is a GPS unit, not an iPod!
5.) The ability to send multiple geocaches from one unit to another at one time.
6.) At $600, street level maps need to be included on the unit already in addition to the terrain maps (in fact, they just need to include the water maps, too). I want to see coverage for the entire U.S. plus Canada. I want the unit to speak not only directions, but also street names - I don't just want beeping!

If Garmin did that - perhaps they could rename it the Oregon 500 or something similar - THEN they'd have the greatest GPS unit on the market.

Why can't companies get EVERYTHING right? It can't be that difficult. If we can think of all this, why can't an entire team of people? They made a good first effort, and I love the way the Oregon is headed - it has some really great capabilities, runs off of commonly found AA batteries (very important), has a really nice physical design, and it looks great, so I can give credit where it's due. But companies always seem to manage to leave out really important features and/or components. We're all so passionate about this technology which is why, in part, so many of us (me included) get frustrated with their efforts when major things are left out. As it stands, despite Garmin's efforts and direction they took with the Oregon, its shortcomings leave me (and many others) no choice but to give it a thumbs down for now. I can't possibly justify dropping hundreds of dollars on a device with those drawbacks - especially with the incredible flaw of an unreadable outdoor screen.

C'mon Garmin, don't let us down. Take the Oregon 400t, and integrate the changes and additions I listed above (many of which were pointed out in this review). Do that, and no GPS out there will touch it. You're almost there. But as it stands, don't plan on big sales.

Even if you decide to delude yourself that the subpar screen is no big deal (which is the most important component in this device next to the GPS chip), your customers won't. We're not blind. We're always going to demand common sense features, but in addition, GPS and Nav units have been out so long now, that at this point in the game and at these prices, we're going to demand a minimum feature set (which on some levels the Oregon hasn't met), and we're going to have higher expectations.

In the review it states that the screen is difficult to read in direct sunlight/sunshine. Zi, you say that the screen "can hardly be read outdoors". I wonder if just tilting the device out of the direct sunlight, or turning away, out of the direct sun would help. Or is he screen brightness just that bad outdoors under any lighting conditions. ??

Hi Murray B,

I own more than half a dozen different Garmin GPS units, but, seen from the point of readability in the open, the display of the Oregon is the worst.

It can be best compared with a display of a PDA or digital camera. With the backlight off you see hardly anything, no matter how bright the ambient light is.

But if there is too much ambient light, you need to shade the display.

I don't know whether the poor readability is owed to the technical design of touch displays, but with the way it is right now, lots of potential byers will boggle to get an Oregon.

CU,
Corillo

Well, as an owner of the Garmin 60CSx I can tell you that this new device holds no interest for me (at least not as currently configured!). If the above comments were incorporated into the next design I would be more inclined to spend $600+ bucks. Additionally I would want to be able to turn the voice options on or off as well. Seems to me the 60CSx has just about everything the Oregon offeres except for the WiFi, touch screen, and picture viewer (none of these options impresses me). Most of the retailers I've spoken to say the Colorado is a dud too... Come on Garmin, we know you can do much better!

Just my opinion...

Regards,
Phil

I had a couple of questions about the Oregon search.

The Colorado lacked important find features the 60CSx has:
- Find By Name (Colorado can only find near)
- pan the map and do a find-near from where you're looking
- use find to go somewhere, then pan around (Colorado can
only zoom in/out at the found location, not pan

Is the Oregon like the Colorado, or does it have the full set of find features that the 60 does?

regards, John

I just recieved my Oregon 400t, and what a dissapointment!!!
The display is almost unreadable outdoors. I am sending it back today.

I note as of yesterday that Garmin has placed "N/A" (i.e., 'not available') next to the Garmin 400t model on their corporate web page, which either means they're sold out, or they're going to fine-tune it some more before releasing it in large numbers to the usual big-box retailers.

I looked around and was about to purchase one from one of the few retailers who has stock at the moment (Sept. 28/08), but after reading the reviews here and elsewhere regarding receiver sensitivity issues and seeing the very, very dim screen when compared to the Nuvi models -- I'm not going to bite. At least until I can read something more positive.

Garmin has *THE* reputation out there for decent kit this side of the professional Trimble stuff both among casual and not-so-casual users like Forestry and the Military -- so I expected more for $600-plus. I am guessing they traded off another 'brightness' setting in favour of greater battery life specs, which is certainly not a tradeoff any user I know would be prepared to make. I don't mind carrying a few sets of AA's in my pack. I *do* mind having to find or make some heavy shade just to see all those features I paid for.

I believe the NA listing refers to the price. The unit is currently available at REI and Amazon. I took the unit outside today at REI in bright sunlight, and had no problem seeing the screen with and without sunglasses.

I almost bought the Oregon 400t...but after reading so many reviews about the screen being dim in the out doors, and after owning a Nuvi and compairing it to the Oregon, I decided to go with the 60 Cxs instead of the Oregon. If Garmin makes improvements to the Oregon, or the Colorado, I will buy it later. For now though, looks like Garmin made another dud...though a great GPS if only it was more easily to be seen where it is supposed to be used...outdoors. Thanks for nothing, Garmin.

I read some of the comments about the problems with the Oregon, but I think they were played down. I went from a 60csx to an Oregon 300.

I use my handheld gps for backpacking, day hikes, and street navigation.

Oregon pluses I noticed:
1) 3d view shows elevation even in street mode
2) shaded relief
3) touch screen
4) smaller size
5) screen lock feature is nice
6) sat initial lock is very fast and strong
6) Battery life is pretty good for a touch screen. Lithium batteries will get you about 15 hours.

Oregon negatives:
On the map screen you have the option of two fields or no fields
1)can not flip from screen to screen without exiting to the main menu and then selecting the other screen ( seems like they could just let you slide you finger left or right at the bottom of the screen to go to the next or previous screens. The do basically this on the main menu screen.
2)battery meter does not read correctly
3)car power adapter that is recommended by Garmin is not correct. I has a 90 degree turn that is the wrong way. Works but is not correct.
4)No preview of your pending turn when the system beeps to let you know a turn is coming.
5)If you are on another page other than the map page you get a beep warning that a turn is coming but no preview. You just see the page you are on at that time.
6)should you miss your turn the Oregon is sporadic regarding how fast it will correct your path. Maybe immediately maybe a few blocks, maybe never.
7)Can not manually stop, edit, or recalculate your route from the map screen, you must exit the map screen to the main menu then go to active route screen.
8)Screen is very dim. In full sunlight you can not see the screen to read it. I light cloud cover it is hard to read.
9)Not many search options. With the Garmin 60CSX you can search by almost any criteria you can think of.
10)You can not customize the Oregon much, 60csx you could customize everything.

Bottom line: If you have not had a gps before or you have had a low end unit you will like it. If you have had a high end unit like a Garmin 60csx you will be disappointed.

I returned mine and got another 60csx.

Just wondering why my comments were not posted here? I have a Nuvii 880 for my wife and I use a Nuvii680 for my truck. Looking for a reliable good valued working gps for when I go sledding in the mountains. I was going to buy a Triton 2000 for the 3 axis compass and all the maps that come with it. Garmin, the previous post by: Zi on September 3, 2008 10:15 PM states what you need. Let me know when you have this and I will buy one along with everyone else in our snowmobilers club. Until you correct these short comings, we will keep looking.

Richard

Just wondering why my comments were not posted here? I have a Nuvii 880 for my wife and I use a Nuvii680 for my truck. Looking for a reliable good valued working gps for when I go sledding in the mountains. I was going to buy a Triton 2000 for the 3 axis compass and all the maps that come with it. Garmin, the previous post by: Zi on September 3, 2008 10:15 PM states what you need. Let me know when you have this and I will buy one along with everyone else in our snowmobilers club. Until you correct these short comings, we will keep looking.

Richard

I waited months for the Oregon 400t to arrive to possibly replace my MapGPS60cx...once it arrive it was great indoors...BUT...that's not where I intended to use it. I did attempte to do some Geocashing for a few hours with it...BUT...the screen brightness is just not that good, what was Garmin thinking when they let this unit get in the public's hands, my guess it will become a failure in sale till this screen problems can be corrected...I had read from other about this drawback and thought maybe they were just too fussy...well I returned mine till Garmin can figure a way to get the screen so it is visible outdoors. What a shame as it has some great features, But I'll be waiting.

I waited months for the Oregon 400t to arrive to possibly replace my MapGPS60cx...once it arrive it was great indoors...BUT...that's not where I intended to use it. I did attempte to do some Geocashing for a few hours with it...BUT...the screen brightness is just not that good, what was Garmin thinking when they let this unit get in the public's hands, my guess it will become a failure in sale till this screen problems can be corrected...I had read from other about this drawback and thought maybe they were just too fussy...well I returned mine till Garmin can figure a way to get the screen so it is visible outdoors. What a shame as it has some great features, But I'll be waiting.

Returned after two hours! Impossible to see screen in sunlight.

I can't believe it's for outdoor use. Worst Garmin ever and I've had most.

Returned after two hours! Impossible to see screen in sunlight.

I can't believe it's for outdoor use. Worst Garmin ever and I've had most.

I wanted to buy an Oregon 400T, but will wait after reading all these reviews...

I have a 76CSX, which I think is the best garmin out there....
It has everything a 60CSX has, but it also floats....
and I have lost it in the water 3 times (on searches)....if it didn't float I would not have gotten it back....
I have used the CSX, starting the same year it came out...

both 76CSX and 60CSX are great...

maybe in 2009, the oregon will improve with the suggestions mentioned above....and include .....floating....

I need a good handheld GPS device for work. I start with a topo map with pre-determined grid points and need a device which will take me to those grid co-ordinates. The screen brightness needs to be strong. I was about to purchase the Oregon 400T for a work assignment in Jamaica and St Kitts in the Carribean. After reading complaints about the dull screen on the 400T, I am stopped in my tracks on the purchase. Who DOES make a unit that has a decent daytime screen ?.......PD

I am looking for a GPS for hunting & fishing. A unit that when I find a spot I want to go back to, it is easy to mark the spot and go back at a later date. Also being in Canada I want water & good topo maps of Ontario. From what you are saying it seems that the 60 CSX is the best bet .. unless the Oregon has some extra features for the hunter/fisherman??

I see folks have posted some fantastic information regarding the pro's, con's and areas for improvement since Sept 2008.

Does anyknow if Garmin has made upgrades to both the hardware issues (chipsets, 3-axis compass, screen brightness, battery life) and software upgrades (removing bugs, ability to toggle between screens without exiting to the main menu)?

It would be a travesty to buy the unit now with the issues and then have a newer version released shortly thereafter.

I was an inch away from buying it but I decided not to buy it after hearing that the screen is very fragile from the seller and I get more disappointed after reading your comments.

Too bad.. too bad..

I was looking at this unit, but after reading so many negative comments about the lighting I am staying away. It really is unfortunate having a device that had most of what I wanted, but is unreadable.

Good I found this page. I was also very close to buying the 400t, but I'll probably just wait some more month. Hopefully issues will be fixed.

I have been a big Garmin fan and user of many different devices, currently and Edge 305 and a 60csx. As many have already mentioned before, display is just a no go for outdoor use. i like touch screen and menus etc, but it doesn't help if the display is completely useless. 1 out of 10. sorry Garmin, make your homework.

I currently have a 60csx and love it. I was seriously considering a purchase of a Oregon and recommend it to my caching buddies but after reading these reviews about dim back lighting and other issues, I think I will refrain from the purchase until these issues are resolved.

i appreciate having the ablility to review comments on products in our time. What a gift.
Just wanted to comment. i just bought the Oregon 400t and i have to say, i didn't have a problem with the brightness or lack of on my screen. Then again, someone had mentioned earlier, maybe because i had the cheaper version before so it is a huge step up for me. the screen isn't exactly bright bright, but i can see everything i need to view with or without sunglasses. i want it mostly to geo-c with and some hiking. thanks for all the comments. hopefully this continues to work out for me as i love all the easy touch features. i did notice the instruction book was a little cheezy and had to go to the site to figure out a few more features,on how to use them. i felt better when i saw that i wasn't the only one with the questions. :)

The garmin 400t is a joke. Who cares about all of the features if you CAN'T SEE THE SCREEN!!! Hasn't anyone at Garmin ever heard of the iPhone??? A real disappointment.

We have been Geocaching for many years. Magellan has been our GPSr of choice. After the disappointment in the eXplorist there was no way we were going to invest in a Triton. So it was time to go to the dark side. We found the Oregon 400t and thought it would work for us, boy were we wrong. It is great that the unit can hold 2000 caches, but that is in the main memory. You can not load multiple gpx files on the micro SD card and them load them onto the unit. It is crazy to have to take your laptop with you just to delete and load smaller gpx files while you are caching, especially on a long trip. Then there is navigating the menu. The unit needs a button of some type so you can get to the main menu without having to back out of all the screens to get there. Do a lot more homework before you buy the Oregon 400t to be sure it will do what you need it to do.

Hi, I just wanted to thank you all for your comments. I was looking into getting a very good GPS that had all the bells and whistles for my trips abroad. I was looking on Amazon and was interested in what I had read about the Oregon 400t. Boy, am I glad I bothered to read reviews first! This would have been my first GPS, so thanks for saving me mucho dinero folks! Garmin is supposed to be the go-to people with this kind of tech, so WTF? All that being said, can anyone recommend a very good/excellent GPS with touchscreen that actually does all the things the Oregon 400t is supposed to do but better? Thanks again!

THANK YOU for all these reviews. I sadly lost my 60CSX last weekend (silly climbing accident, fell in a river, GPS still at the bottom somewhere...) and was looking around for a successor. I had actually ordered an Oregon 400T this morning (the idea of navigating per touch screen is highly appealing). But I just canceled my order after having read this page (yes, I should have read it BEFORE I ordered...). I fail to see any valid successor other than another 60CSX...

Well I have a 60CSx and an Oregon 400i and the 60CSx is now my backup unit. The Oregon is for me quite a better unit as the profiles make it so easy to go from land nav to on the road nav, to Inland Lakes nav etc.

Visibility, while not as good as the 60CSx, is quite acceptable with a few trick learned from the Oregon Wiki. When I first tried out an Oregon from a store, I was also put off, but then I read the Wiki and ordered one. I'm not sorry I did!

In addition the 200 tracks you can save at 10000 points each beat the heck out of the 20 tracks truncated at 500 points on the 60CSx.
The larger map segment it can handle (about 4000) and larger map memory also make it more useful than my 60CSx.

The 60CSx was a great unit and price-wise still is. But the advances made in the Oregon made it quite attractive to me and very useful too.

Amir K9CHP

> I wonder if just tilting the device out of the direct
> sunlight, or turning away, out of the direct sun would help

YEAH RIGHT

I'm going at 60 km/h down hill on the bicycle and the GPS is attached to the handlebars. When I look at the route on the GPS screen I can't look at it more than half a second, because if I look at it too long, I will crash, and obviously I can't orient it at the magic angle to the sun.

Fortunately I got a 60csx so everything is always perfectly readable.

Did Garmin change the screen on the Oregon 300 recently. I have 60CSx, and decided to buy a Oregon 300 for my wife. I like both of them. The thing i dont get with all the reviews is the screen. I have zero issue seeing mine in direct high noon sunlight. Am I crazy or really just have low expectations? Did they fix/change the screen recently or something?

Overall I like some of the features of the Oregon300, the touch is fun, the maps look good. As great as the 60csx is I always felt it lack a little finese in OS as far as looks go. I even saw Rhino520, similar to the 60csx OS, but had subtle graphic enhancements over mine.

Glad I read all these comments before I went & bought one! Quite liked the idea of being able to log all my finds in the field on the Oregon similar to using a PDA for field comments using "Gps Sonar".
Went caching with a mate in OZZ who had a smart phone with Gps with "Geo-scout software" and a GPS reciever on his belt linked with Bluetooth to the phone. It worked really well, with the ability to write up your finds as you went along & then log the whole lot on the phone, very good!
I have a 60 Csx, which I really like, I think it would be a backward step if I went with the Oregon, Garmin--what were you thinking? Designed by comittee?--remember the Edsell!!

Thanks to those of you who reviewed this item. You caused me to go to my local EMS to check this unit out prior to buying it.

I found the dim display screen to be a deal-killer. EMS let me take it outside to test it. While you could manipulate the unit to be able to read the screen, who needs the hassle (Especially for the money they want for it). On the other hand, the unit had no problem tracking satellites even within the shadow of a large mall building. It gave me a fix in less than two minutes.

Hopefully the next touch-screen unit (really neat, by the way) will deal with the screen readability issue. Until then, I'll just wait.

I recently purchased the Oregon 400t and don't understand all the negatives about the screen brightness. I agree that it could be better, but I don't feel it's anywhere near as bad as some are making it out to be. I absolutely love the touch screen and the interface. It's very easy to use. I find the accuracy to be more than adequate. About my only complaint is that the compass freezes up sometimes and I have to recalibrate it which only takes a few seconds. I love mine.

I have been taking a critical look at hand held GPS lately and have come away very dissappointed in what I have found. I looked at the etrax series and found them difficult to use with lousy maps. I looked at the Oregon and the Colorado and each had its problems. It's makes me wonder if Garmin actually field tests their devises before they put them on the market. That backlighting issue should have been discovered immediatly and been delt with accordingly. Being able to delete stuff and move rapidly between maps should be no- brainers. From what I have seen so far, garmins hand helds are not much better than my car GPS which is a third the cost. Another problem is the manuals. Seriously, I shouldn't have to buy a seperate CD to explain to me how to use a particular gps. On top of that the maps they peddle which you can only get from Garmin are as high in price as they are low on detail. Out in the woods a gps has to be easy to see and easy to use and be able to tell you what you want to know quickly. I really question if Garmin really understands this business.

Oregon 400t is my first GPS but I need to admit I read lots of reviews, comparisons, specs, hi res pics... about products of the bigest GPS manufacturers including military ones, about DAGR....... which I would buy to try it if, well, $1.700.
Oregon 400t is just great device:
- working even, well, in the room,
- very well build, I like type of plastic/rubber Garmin used for it,
- very well sits in your hand,
- very easy to use interfacewise (believe me – no need in instruction),
- no buttons all over it (just one "On-Off"),
- no speakers (I have no intentions to attach Ipod/phone... to it) as use of it for road is only little option (it is for walking!!!).
- screen is perfect, I use aprx 40%/70% - cloudly/sunny on scale, in full darkness 50% is enough (this is not a torch!!!),
- in open presision is +/- 3-5m (lets not talk about SE…),
- no camera (I don’t understand - if you want to make picture with nice DSLR why to pay for extra cameras in phone, GPS, MP3 player… car remote-key…),
- Garmin even used Aluminius to hold clip on the back! (I don’t think device has Aluminium body. I wish).
- 1m submersible.
I give Oregon 400t 8 out of 10. I recommend it. The only downside is I managed already to drop padlock on it while 400t was on the floor.

The map is just plain unusable in daylight. It works fine if you are hiking after dark and don't mind turning on the backlight frequently. This was a miserable waste of cash. Fortunately, I still have my Garmin 60CSX.

Into this land, enter Dorothy, the well-meaning but naïve Dorothy. ,